Torquil MacGruder

General Info

name already registered

MacGruder is a sept of Clan Gregor. The Iowa town of McGregor was founded by a member of the Gregor clan.

Scotch pine is the plant badge of the Gregor clan per Wikipedia.

Crest badge: The crest badge suitable for members of Clan Gregor to wear consists of the chief's heraldic crest and slogan. The chief's crest is: a lion's head erased Proper, crowned with an antique crown Or. The chief's slogan within the crest badge is 's rìoghail mo dhream ([stɾiː.əl mə ɣɾãũm]), which translates from Scottish Gaelic to "Royal is my race"

Sable, in chevron a wolf's head cabossed between two stags combatant argent and three wolves's teeth issuant from base gules.

Conflict:

• Clear of:
  • Thorleifr Úlfvarinsson- Argent, in bend a wolf's head erased sable and three wolf's teeth issuant from sinister base gules.
    • DC for the field, SC for # charges in primary group, DC for erased vs cabossed (?) and for "in bend"

No conflicts found under wolf's head (group primary) or wolf's teeth.

Needs an IAP for color-on-color

German IAP Went through the 19 German armorial PDFs from Gunnvor and her various collections of examples

==Decision Torquil MacGruder. Device. Sable, in chevron a wolf's head cabossed between two stags combattant argent and issuant from base three wolf's teeth gules.

This device is returned per SENA A3b2, which requires that charges have good contrast with their fields. The gules wolf's teeth have poor contrast with the sable field. The submitter attempted to submit an IAP to demonstrate the use of low-contrast charges in similar designs; however, none of the provided examples match the submission in style and complexity, as required by SENA A4B. This submission has a complexity count of 6 while none of the provided examples have a complexity higher than 5, and even the most complex of the provided examples only has 2 types of charge while this submission has 3.

This device is also returned per SENA A3D1 for lacking clear charge groups: the wolf's teeth, which are blazoned as secondary charges, are drawn larger than any of the primary charges, blurring the distinction between charge groups.

https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2023/03/23-03lar.html#51

Suggestion/s

Get rid of the wolf's head - already have the wolf's teeth to represent the wolf

• decreases the complexity count from 6 to 5, to match period examples
• decreased the number of charges from 3 to 2, to match period examples

Draw the wolf's teeth a little bit smaller? (But I think we used the established line art and wolf's teeth, by definition, are supposed to be really big.)

Specify the stags to be "in chief" to make them subordinate to the wolf's teeth

Single examples of "normal" items for IAP

Wolf's teeth x 1 (issuant from base?)

1. Argent, a fess vert, in chief three wolves' teeth issuant from dexter and three issuant from sinister sable. Siebmacher's Wappenbuch of 1605, von Keudell (plate 135)
2. "we’ve an example of them issuant from base, in the arms of Schinsky, 1605 [Siebmacher 135, 28]." per the PicDic. Also, the number of teeth is to be blazoned. https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/heraldry/siebmacher/28-schinsky.jpg

Stag rampant x 1

1. Argent, a stag rampant gules. Sammelbund, BSB 391, f 164, but labeled f183r, p367 on the webpage - https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00007681?page=367

Wolf's head X 1

1. Azure, a wolf's head couped argent. Siebmacher von Kötzaw (p 153). http://www.wappenbuch.de/pages/wappen_153_Siebmacher.htm

• no caboshed dog/wolf in the Ordinary of Siebmachers Wappenbuch - https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/heraldry/siebmacher/h-siebmacher.html

Beast's head cabossed x at least 1:

1. Gules, a bull's head affronty sable armed and ringed Or. Grosses Wapenbuch BSB Cod.icon. 333, Wagrien. f8r, p23 - https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00002481?page=23
2. Quarterly 1st Or, a boar's head cabossed sable capped gules, 2nd ... 3rd ... 4th ..., overall an escutcheon per fess gules and Or, Meckhelbur (7).
3. Azure, issuant from a stag's head cabbosed, a Latin cross Or, a bordure gules, Thull (12).
4. Gules, a ram's head cabossed sable armed and crowned Or, von Haugwitz (153).
5. Quarterly 1st and 4th ..., 2nd and 3rd gules, a lion's head cabossed Or, von Bünaw (155).
6. Quarterly 1st and 4th per saltire Or and sable, in pale two leopard's heads and in fess two fleurs-de-lys counterchanged, 2nd and 3rd ..., Unverzagt (33).

Gules, 3 wolf's teeth issuant from base. Siebmacher	Argent, a stag rampant gules. f 164 Sammelbund	Azure, a wolf's head couped argent. Siebmacher von Kötzaw (153)	Gules, a bull's head affronty sable armed and ringed Or. Grosses Wapenbuch, Wagrien.

Motif of charges in chevron

1. Gules, three dice in chevron argent and a mount Or. 1400s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 311] (688), f50, page 103 - https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00001650?page=103. Also, 1475-1560 Wappen Besonders von Deutschen Geschlechtern [BSB Cod.icon. 309], p 53.

Motif of unlike charges in a single charge group:

1. Argent, in saltire a scimitar argent handled Or and a key argent. Ortenburger Wappenbuch, BSB 308, folio 212.
2. Argent, in fess an eagles leg Or feathered vert and a lion gules. 1400s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 311] (688), folio 16, page 35. https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00001650?page=35
3. Azure, in fess a stag's attire palewise argent and a lion Or armed and crowned Or. 1400s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 311] (688), folio 18r

Motif of animate charges combatant:

1. Azure, a bend between two pairs of dogs combatant Or. Wernigeroder Wappenbuch [BSB 308n], folio 315v, p 393 in Gunnvor's pdf; p 426 on the website. https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00043104?page=426

Motif of wolf's teeth with other charges on the field

1. Argent, a fess vert and in chief six wolf's teeth, three from the dexter and three from the sinister, sable. Siebmacher, 135, Keudel zu Schwebda. http://www.wappenbuch.de/pages/wappen_135_Siebmacher.htm

Gules, three dice in chevron argent and a mount Or. Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB 311], f50	Argent, in fess an eagles leg Or feathered vert and a lion gules. Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB 311], f16	Azure, a bend between two pairs of dogs combatant Or. Wernigeroder Wappenbuch [BSB 308n]	Argent, a fess vert and in chief six wolf's teeth, three from the dexter and three from the sinister, sable. Siebmacher, 155, Keudel zu Schwebda.	Argent, a red rose proper and two stirrups gules trimmed Or. Wapenboek Beyerin, 1405 Dutch.

Triple examples of things that "break the rules"

Need 3 examples of low-contrast peripheral charges with high-contrast primary charges, or 6 bracketing examples.

1. Sable, a latin cross argent issuant from a trimount gules between in chief two mullets of six points Or. - Swiss Armorial (?), Röthlisberger (dated to 1392?) (low-contrast basal charge with multiple high contrast primary charges) - Modern source - http://burgerbib.scopeoais.ch/detail.aspx?ID=225005
2. Sable, a griffin argent issuant from a trimount gules. - BSB392d Suddeutchland Armorial, 16th cent. (low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge) - https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00018706?page=,1 specifically https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00018706?page=589 (at the bottom)
3. Sable an eagle rising wings displayed argent upon a trimount gules - Siebmacher, f144, Die Rothen (low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge)
4. Sable, three towers argent, for augmentation on a canton gules, a comb (?) Or. Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. https://galerij.kb.nl/kb.html#/nl/wapenboek/ - 042r her Geldoff van Zenne. (low contrast peripheral ordinary with multiple high contrast primary charges)
5. Sable, a lion argent and a chief gules. 1602-1604 Wappenbuch der Konrad Grünenberg [BSB-Hss Cgm 9210, f319v, p648] (low contrast peripheral ordinary with high contrast primary charge) https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00034952?page=648
6. (Can't Read Name): {Blazoning only quarter 2} Per fess or and sable, in chief a demi-lion issuant from the line of division sable crowned argent and in base a chevron indented and masoned gules. Großes Wappenbuch, Cod.icon. 333, p 183, f88r [S.l.] Süddeutschland 1583 - https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00002481?page=183
7. Sable, a lion argent within a bordure gules. Universeel Wapenboek c. 1558 (Gunnvor collection Gunnvor-Red-on-Black_02)
8. Sable, on a canton gules a lion Or. Universeel Wapenboek c. 1558 (Gunnvor-Red-on-Black_02)
9. Sable, five bezants within a bordure gules. Siebmacher, von Sickingen (Gunnvor-Red-on-Black_03) http://www.wappenbuch.de/pages/wappen_122_Siebmacher.htm
   1. Azure semi-de-li Or, a bordure gules. Sammelband, f152r, p 305. https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00007681?page=305
   2. Azure, three fleur-de-lis Or within a bordure gules platy. Sammelband, f152r, p 305. https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00007681?page=305
   3. Gules, a pile invected sable. Sammelband, f153.
   4. Gules, a sinister arm issuant from sinister chief vested sable trimmed maintaining in the hand a ring Or. Quarters 2&3 of f365 Baie von Boppart in Scheibler http:commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beier_von_Boppard-Scheibler365ps.jpg
   5. Gules, a tower argent and in base an eagle sable. Sammeland BSB391, f169v, p 340. https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00007681?page=340
   6. Gules, a church argent and a mount sable. Anton Tirol Wappenbuch, BSB 310, f31r.
   7. Gules, a fess argent and a base sable. 1475-1560 Wappen Besonders von Deutschen Geschlechtern [BSB Cod.icon. 309], f 33v, page 67, https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb00002106?page=72
   8. Azure, a sun in his splendor Or and a mount sable. Wernigeroder BSB308n, p 156. (low contrast basal charge with high contrast primary)

Sable, a latin cross argent issuant from a trimount gules between in chief two mullets of six points Or	Sable, a griffin argent issuant from a trimount gules	Sable, an eagle rising wings displayed argent upon a trimount gules	[quarter 2] Per fess or and sable, in chief a demi-lion issuant from the line of division sable crowned argent and in base a chevron indented and masoned gules
low-contrast basal charge with multiple high contrast charges on the field	low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge	low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge	low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge
Swiss Armorial, Röthlisberger (dated to 1392? source?)	BSB392d Suddeutchland Armorial, 16th cent.	Siebmacher, f144, Die Rothen	Großes Wappenbuch, Cod.icon. 333

Sable, three (?) towers argent, for augmentation on a canton gules, a comb Or.	Sable, a lion argent and a chief gules.
low-contrast peripheral charge with high-contrast primary charges	low contrast peripheral charge with high contrast primary charge
Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. 042r her Geldoff van Zenne	Wappenbuch der Konrad Grünenberg [BSB-Hss Cgm 9210, f360?, p302]

Azure, a sun Or and a mount sable.	Gules, a church argent and a mount sable.	Gules, a fess argent and a base sable.	Gules, a sinister Caucasian arm issuant from sinister chief vested sable trimmed maintaining in the hand a ring Or.
low-contrast basal charge with high contrast primary charge	low-contrast complex basal charge with HC primary charge	low contrast basal charge with HC primary	low-contrast peripheral charge with high-contrast maintained charge
Wernigeroder BSB 308n	Anton Tirol Wappenbuch, BSB 310, f31r.	Wappen Besonders von Deutschen Geschlechtern, BSB Cod.icon. 309	Scheibler, f365, Baie von Boppart

Sable, between two stags combatant argent a pale indented gules fimbriated and charged with a wolf's head cabossed argent.

No rules broken, but would like to break a tincture rule if we can.

And hard to fit everything into the design.

Sable, between two stags combatant a pale indented gules charged with a wolf's head couped sable.

Needs an IAP for color-on-color

German IAP Went through the 19 German armorial PDFs from Gunnvor and her various collections of examples

Single examples of "normal" items

Pale indented x 1

1. Or, a pale indented gules, von Wisentaw (103) [but looks a bit fusilly]. https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/heraldry/siebmacher/pale-1-gu.html, https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/heraldry/siebmacher/103-vonwisentaw.jpg
2. Argent, a pale indented gules. 1500s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 312, f42]

Stags combatant x 1

1. Argent, a stag rampant gules. f 164 Sammelbund

Wolf's head couped X 1

1. Or, a wolf's head couped vert. f 321v Manesse Codex.
2. Azure, a wolf's head couped argent, von Kötzaw (153). https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/heraldry/siebmacher/153-vonkoetzaw.jpg

Motif of charged pale with secondaries on either side x1

1. Argent, between two herbrew letters sable and pale gules charged with a bell Or. f13r in Sammelbund.

Triple examples of things that "break the rules"

LC central ordinary with complex line, gules on sable x 3

1. (Can't Read Name): {Blazoning only quarter 2} Per fess or and sable, in chief a demi-lion issuant from the line of division sable crowned argent and in base a chevron indented and masoned gules. http://codicon.digitale-sammlungen.de/1bsb00002481_00183.jpg
2. -
3. -
   1. Per pale sable and argent, a pale per pale sable a fess gules and gules a fess argent. Her Syegmut Seberacher, Ingeram Codex. http:commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ingeram_Codex_018.jpg
   2. Per pale sable a fess gules and argent. Turnbacher, Ingeram Codex. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ingeram_Codex_206.jpg
   3. Sable a fess gules and overall a decrescent and an increscent Or, f35 Sammelbund
   4. Sable, a lion Or and overall a bend gules. Sammelband, f179. Also Wapenboek Beyeren [1581], 029v Jan die bastert van Brabant. (because a bend overall is more complex that a bend on the field?)
   5. Sable, a lion rampant Or, overall on a bend gules three annulets sable. 038r die heere van Loncamp. Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. http://www.kb.nl/bladerboek/wapenboek/ (because a bend overall is more complex that a bend on the field?)

1. 1. 1. Gules, on a bend wavy sable three fish haurient argent (HC tertiaries). Dye Schencken von Sumern. Ingeram Codex. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ingeram_Codex_173.jpg
      2. Gules, on a bend sable three fleurs (?) argent, 1475-1560 Wappen Besonders von Deutschen Geschlechtern [BSB Cod. 309, f ?, p 116 in my download]
      3. Gules, on a fess sable three plates, 1400s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 311, f40]
      4. Gules, a fess sable charged with three plates. Sammeland, f192; also in 1540 Anton Tirol's Wappenbuch [BSB 310, f129]
      5. Gules, a fess sable charged with three bezants. 1602-1604 Wappenbuch der Konrad Grünenberg (BSB-Hss Cgm 9210, p287, f305)
      6. Gules, a pale sable within a bordure or. #385 zum Angen, Zurich Roll (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ZurichRoll/index.html )
      7. Red bordure on black, f92 Sammelbund
      8. Lots of red saltires on blue in Sammelbund, uncharged.

LC two complex secondary animate charges on the field - gules on sable x3

1. -
2. -
3. -
   1. Sable, a bull passant gules attired Or. 212r, Ortenburger Wappenbuch, German 1466-1473 [link] HiGaS
   2. Per pale gules and sable, an eagle displayed counterchanged. Von Radenhausen, Siebmacher, German 1605, plate 182 [link] HiGaS
   3. Per fess sable and argent, a lion gules and three billets? sable. Von Homberg, Siebmacher, German 1605, plate 167 [link] HiGaS
   4. Sable, a lion rampant gules crowned Or, BSB CMG9210 f104 (or 304 or 504?) Grunenbergy Conrad Wappenbuch
      1. Black dog on red field, f2 Sammelbund

Argent, a bend gules charged in dexter with a fleur sable. 1602-1604 Wappenbuch der Konrad Grünenberg, BSB-Hss Cgm 9210, f265, p247

LC animate tertiary - Sable on gules (tertiary on central ordinary) x3

1. Argent, on a bend gules three drinking horns sable. Von Gellhorn, Siebmacher, German 1605, plate 55 [link] HiGaS
2. Argent, a bend gules charged in dexter with a fleur sable. 1602-1604 Wappenbuch der Konrad Grünenberg, BSB-Hss Cgm 9210, f265, p247
3. Or, a lion gules charged on the shoulder with a wheel sable. 014v her Aernt van Moirmont. (because a lion is more complex than an ordinary) Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. http://www.kb.nl/bladerboek/wapenboek/
   1. Sable, a lion rampant Or, overall on a bend gules three annulets sable. 038r die heere van Loncamp. Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. http://www.kb.nl/bladerboek/wapenboek/ (because a bend overall is more complex that a bend on the field?)
   2. Paly argent and azure, on a chief gules in dexter a mullet sable. 004v her Jan Mulrepas. Wapenboek Beyeren [1581]. http://www.kb.nl/bladerboek/wapenboek/
   3. Argent on a chief indented gules, in dexter in pale two lions passant sable. (?!?) 046r her Michiell van Watersoen, Wapenboek Beyeren, Dutch 1581. http://www.kb.nl/bladerboek/wapenboek/

"HiGaS" per Heraldry in Gules and Sable

Alternate Ideas

Per pale sable and gules, two roundels in fess counterchanged. 1475-1500 Wernigeroder Wappenbuch [BSB Cod.icon. 308 n, folio 207r]

Stag's attires - red on black and vice versa on wiki

Wolves' teeth - stylized teeth coming out of the side of the shield - http://heraldicart.org/wolves-teeth/

Quarterly gules and sable to mimic the "buffalo plaid" tartan allowed

• Quarterly indented (?) argent and gules, 1500s Wappen Deutscher Geschlechter [BSB Cod.icon. 312, f46, ]
• Above clearly indented in 1574-1637 Stamm- und Wappenbuch des Freiherrn Wolfgang Leonhard Unverzagt von Ebenfurth und Petronell - BSB Cod.icon. 326b, f 7 showing "Liechtenstein".
• Also, Quarterly indented gules and argent, 1466-1473 Ortenburger Wappenbuch [BSB Cod.icon. 308 u], p 232, folio 127/129r ? and 146/148, 151/153
• Both field-primary devices: Quarterly gules and sable, and Quarterly sable and gules, appear clear of conflict ?!? (haven't checked gules/color or sable/color)
  • Gules and sable - https://oanda.sca.org//oanda_desc.cgi?p=QLY%3a%7eand%20sable%3agules
    • Gules and argent - Ulf of Sjaelland registered in February of 1996 (via Caid): Quarterly gules and argent. Only 1 DC for sable to argent. Add indented lines to clear?
    • Gules and azure - Eirik Halfdanarson registered in September of 2014 (via Ansteorra): Quarterly embattled gules and azure.
    • Gules and fur - none plain
    • Gules and multi - none plain
    • Gules and Or - none plain
    • Gules and purpure - none plain
    • GUles and vert - none plain
  • Sable and gules - https://oanda.sca.org//oanda_desc.cgi?p=QLY%3a%7eand%20gules%3asable
    • Sable and argent - Paul fitz Denis registered in February of 2014 (via Caid): Quarterly per fess indented sable and argent.
    • Sable and azure - none plain
    • Sable and fur - none plain
    • Sable and multi - none plain
    • Sable and Or - Sven Förlorad registered in April of 1998 (via Trimaris): Quarterly arrondi sable and Or.
    • Sable and purpure - Michael Patrick MacBain registered in July of 2020 (via the Outlands): Quarterly sable and purpure.
    • Sable and vert - none plain

Indented field divisions registerable with gules and sable per SENA Appendix H - http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixH