Rogned Steingrimovna: Difference between revisions

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**Grímr, Grími - "Found in Old Danish as Grim (found as a by-name), '''Old Swedish Grim (found as a by-name)''', and OW.Norse Grímr. (Instances in Old Danish and Old Swedish by-names may be derived from the OW.Norse adjective grimmr "grim, cruel, atrocious".) Originally a by-name, related to Old Icelandic gríma, "mask", and may refer to a helm which masks the face, also Grímr was one of the names of the god Óðinn. This name is common in Norway and Iceland through the whole medieval period, and is frequent in Denmark and Sweden...
**Grímr, Grími - "Found in Old Danish as Grim (found as a by-name), '''Old Swedish Grim (found as a by-name)''', and OW.Norse Grímr. (Instances in Old Danish and Old Swedish by-names may be derived from the OW.Norse adjective grimmr "grim, cruel, atrocious".) Originally a by-name, related to Old Icelandic gríma, "mask", and may refer to a helm which masks the face, also Grímr was one of the names of the god Óðinn. This name is common in Norway and Iceland through the whole medieval period, and is frequent in Denmark and Sweden...


====Slavicized Norse names in the Byzantine Treaties:====
====Slavicized Norse names in the 944/945 Byzantine Treaty:====
907 - Karla, Farlafa, Vermuda, Rulava, Stemida.
{| class=wikitable
| Treaty forms
| In nominative case:
| Normalized Old West (! - treaty names are likely Old East aka Swedish) Norse per Viking Answer Lady (VAL):
|-
| Karla, Farlafa, Vermuda, Rulava, <br> '''Stemida'''.
| Karl, Farlaf, Vermud, Rulav, <br>'''Stemid'''.
| Karl or Karli, Farulfr (vs 911), Vermundr (vs 911), Hrothleifr, <br>'''Steinvithr'''. <br>
|}
Note: ''All of the above names are also found in the 911 treaty, in the same order (with some extra people added in between)!''
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/VarangianNames.shtml


911 Treaty
{| class=wikitable
| Treaty forms
| Normalized Old West (!) Norse forms of above per Viking Answer Lady (VAL):
| VAL original order
| Standardized Norse of above per allempires.net discussion
|-
| Karly, Inegeld, Farlaf (Farlo per VAL), Veremud, Rulav, Gudy (Goudy per VAL), Ruald (Rouad per VAL), Karn (Kari per VAL, but the Russian is clearly Карн, not Кари), Frelav, Ruar (Roal/Ruar in VAL), Aktevu, Truan, Lidul, Fost, <br>'''Stemid'''.
| Karl (Karli?), Ingjaldr, Farleifr (vs 907), Vermothr (vs 907), Hrolleifr, Guthi, Hroaldr, Kari, Freleifr, Hroaldr, omitted Aktevu, omitted Truan, omitted Lidul, omitted Fost, <br> omitted '''Stemid''', added Hroerekr.
| Farlo/Farleifr, Frelav/Freleifr, Goudy/Guthi, Rouad/Hroaldr, Roal/Hroaldr aka Ruar/Hroarr, Rurik/Hroerekr, Rulav/Hrolleifr, Inegeld/Ingjaldr, Kari [sic]/Kari, Karly/Karl, Vermoud/Vermothr.
| Karl, Ingjald, Farulf/-leif?, Värmund, Hrolf, Gudi, Hroald, Kari? (mispelled и for н?), Fridleif, Hroald, Angantyr, Thrond, Lidulf, Fasti, ? <br> (Stenvid maybe).
|}
(Discrepencies between VAL and my version may be differences between Old Russian and modern Russian, for example the old Russian ou is now simply u. There are also multiple manuscripts of the Primary Chronicle.)
944 Treaty
{| class=wikitable
{| class=wikitable
| Treaty forms
| Treaty forms
Line 98: Line 69:
| ... '''Grimr''', Prasten?,  '''Iostaeinn''', ....Prasten?,  Biorn, ...'''Fro/ystaeinn''', Brunn, Hroald, Gunn-?, '''Fro/ystaeinn''', ...
| ... '''Grimr''', Prasten?,  '''Iostaeinn''', ....Prasten?,  Biorn, ...'''Fro/ystaeinn''', Brunn, Hroald, Gunn-?, '''Fro/ystaeinn''', ...
|}
|}


Introduction to the 944/945 treaty with Byzantium  
Introduction to the 944/945 treaty with Byzantium  

Revision as of 21:26, 9 February 2021

Bureaucratic details

Consulting!

  • Name: Primary & Household
  • Action: New for both names
  • Already Registered Name? no
  • Authenticity desired? yes
  • Allowed Changes: Minor only
  • If changes needed: Language/Culture - Scando-Rus, daughter of Steinngrimr
  • Allow Holding Name?
  • Gender of Name: female
  • Previous submission history, if any - none
  • Kingdom? Drachenwald

Name Inspiration

Primary Name: Rogned Steingrimovna, Russian persona, 10-13th C, Novgorod.

  • "My persona has a Rus mother and Swedish father of the Varangian Guard... My father, in the SCA, is Duke Steingrim Stellari (An Tír, now the West). Hence the Steingrimovna.

Household Name: Dom Stemgrimov

  • I need to check the grammar on this.

Given Name

Rogned

Rogneda (f) -- Scandanavian name. Rogneda, daughter of Rogvolod Polotskoi. 980. [Tup 463] Vars: Rogned (daughter of Rogvolod). 980. [Nik IX 39] Rogned' (daughter of Great Prince Mstislav Vladimirovich). 1168. [Tup 463] Rozgneda. c980. [Ste 69] from Wickenden 2nd edition.


Byname/Surname

Steingrimovicha

Byname honoring SCA father

  • Steingrimovicha - Slavicized Scandinavian patronymic byname.
    • Steingrim = Old Norse name per Viking Answer Lady. http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml
    • Slavicizing Scandinavian patronymic bynames evidenced in the 944/945 Rus-Byzantine treaty as recorded in the Russian Primary Chronicle with names such as:

Notes

Clearly a lightly Slavicized Scandinavian patronymic byname:

  • Scandinavian Steingrimr with Slavic alternate patryonimic ending.
  • Standard period patronymic ending is -ova, without the "n" although -ovna is documented and registerable.
  • -ovicha is a nice option for northern Rus, Novgorod style.

Notes on Slavicization:

  • The long "i" sound in the German pronunciation of Stein- is a rather alien sound in Russian.
  • "ei" is pronounced "ay" (as in "way") in Old Norse - https://ordstirr.wordpress.com/language/old-norse-pronunciation/ and others.
  • Most of the "Viking Rus" in early Russia were from Sweden, where "Sten-" is the expected form according to the Viking Answer Lady (see below). The "e" in Old Norse is pronounced like the "e" in "bet" (which is just as it would be pronounced in Russian).
  • In the 10th c. Rus-Byzantine treaties, see below, "-stein-" is written in Russian as: sten, or stem.
  • Ibid, "Grimr" is converted into simple Grim. That this version is acceptible to Slavic tongues is demonstrated by the Slavic name, Grimislav which is documented in Wickenden.

Conclusion: plausible constructed Slavicized paternal name "Stengrim" leading to patronymic byname Stengrimov -> Stengrimova or Stengrimovna. The Russian "e" is pronounced like "eh" or "yeh", not like "ee" and certainly not like the "i" in "bite" (which is actually a diphthong of ah + ee).


Viking Answer Lady:

  • Steingrímr - "For the first element Stein- see above. For the second element -grímr see above. GB p. 15 s.n. Steingrímr; FJ pp. 346, 349 s.nn. Stein-, -grímr; CV p. xxxiv s.v. "Pet Names"; CV pp. 216, 591 s.v. gríma, steinn; NR s.n. -stæinn, -grímR"
    • Steinn - "Found both as a personal name and as a by-name in Old Danish and Old Swedish as Sten and in OW.Norse as Steinn. From OW.Norse steinn "stone." As by-name, may reflect place-names in OW.Norse Stein-, -steinn...
    • Grímr, Grími - "Found in Old Danish as Grim (found as a by-name), Old Swedish Grim (found as a by-name), and OW.Norse Grímr. (Instances in Old Danish and Old Swedish by-names may be derived from the OW.Norse adjective grimmr "grim, cruel, atrocious".) Originally a by-name, related to Old Icelandic gríma, "mask", and may refer to a helm which masks the face, also Grímr was one of the names of the god Óðinn. This name is common in Norway and Iceland through the whole medieval period, and is frequent in Denmark and Sweden...

Slavicized Norse names in the 944/945 Byzantine Treaty:

Treaty forms Nordiskt runnamnslexikon (The Dictionary of Norse Runic Names)
...Grim Sfir'kov; Prasten Akun... Istr Aminodov; Prasten Bernov; ... Furosten, Bruny, Roal'd, Gunastr, Frasten', ... ... Grimr, Prasten?, Iostaeinn, ....Prasten?, Biorn, ...Fro/ystaeinn, Brunn, Hroald, Gunn-?, Fro/ystaeinn, ...

Introduction to the 944/945 treaty with Byzantium

Per Laurentian Text under 944 - http://litopys.org.ua/lavrlet/lavr03.htm 

...Прасьтѣнь Туръдуви Либиаръ Фастовъ . Гримъ Сфирьковъ ... Каръı . Тудковъ. Каршевъ . Туръдовъ. Егри Евлисковъ. [Воистъ] Е Воиковъ. Истръ. Аминодовъ. Прастѣнъ . Берновъ. Ӕвтѧгъ. Гунаровъ ... Колъ Клековъ. Стегги Етоновъ . ... Алвадъ Гудовъ . Фудри Туадовъ. Мутуръ Оутинъ . ... Фуръстѣнъ ... Фрастѣнъ .

Per modern Russian translation of the Primary Chronicle under 945 - http://www.old-russian.chat.ru/01povest.htm 

... Прастен Тудоров; Либиар Фастов; Грим Сфирьков; ... Кары Тудков; Каршев Тудоров; Егри Евлисков; Воист Войков; Истр Аминодов; Прастен Бернов; Явтяг Гунарев; ... Кол Клеков; Стегги Етонов; ... Алвад Гудов; Фудри Туадов; Мутур Утин; ... Фуростен, ... Фрастен...

Translated/transliterated list of names from above:  

... Prasten Tudorov; Libiar Fastov; Grim Sfir'kov; ...Kary Tudkov; Karshev Tudorov; Egri Evliskov; Voist Voikov; Istr Aminodov; Prasten Bernov; Yavtyag Gunarev; ... Kol Klekov; Steggi Etonov; ... Alvad Gudov; Fundri Tuadov; Mutur Utin; ... Furosten, ... Frasten...

From Nordiskt runnamnslexikon The Dictionary of Norse Runic Names, by Lena Peterson - 

...?Prasten Tudorov?, Libbi & Lik(n)biorn, Fasti, Grimr, Sfir'kov?, Hagni/Hagun-, ...Kari, Haeggi, Evliskov?, Voist?, Boi, Iostaeinn, Aminodov?, Prasten?, Biorn, Yavtyag, Gunn- & Gunna & Gunnar, ...Kolla & Kolli & Kulli & Kulr, Klakki, Stigr & Styggr, Aeithorn & Aetta, ...Alver, Guthi, Finnr & Fithr & Fundinn, Fundri Tuadov?, Utr, ... Fro/ystaeinn, ...Fro/ystaeinn...

http://www.sofi.se/images/runor/pdf/lexikon.pdf


Close (?) names in Wickenden:

  • Grimislav (m) -- "decorated glory." Grimislav. 1253. [Mor 64] Vars: Grimizlai. 1247. [Mor 64]
  • Stemid (m) -- Stemid. 912. [Mor 186] - clearly from the 911 treaty (old calendar)

Combination

  • Documentation for the combination of the names
  • Needed if lingual mix, temporal incompatibility, double-given name, etc.


Household Name

Dom

Steingrimov - see above

Blazon Information

RognedSample1Color.png
RognedSample1ColorSwap.png

Device?

Gules, a Ukrainian trident Or and in chief a crescent pendant argent.

  • the trident to be the primary charge with the crescent a smaller secondary charge


Gules/Sable, a Ukrainian trident Or.

Household Badge?

Per pale Or and gules, a bear rampant sable maintaining a sword bendwise argent. "I believe a black border around the edge may need to be added (?)"

  • Concern: the argent sword is laying on the Or part of the field, which is no longer allowed with the new rule that maintained charges count for difference. Suggest changing the sword tincture to a color, or swapping the tinctures of the field.

Per pale Or and gules, a bear sejant erect sable maintaining a scimitar bendwise sinister proper (gold handle, silver blade) overhead.

  • Solves the problem of the silver sword blade on a gold field by putting the sword have on the gold and half on the red. The sword should probably be all silver in case someone wants to fret about the gold handle on a gold field.
  • Scimitar options: http://heraldicart.org/scimitar/
  • Bear options (none sejant ERECT, grumble): http://heraldicart.org/scimitar/


Conflict Checking

Name

Armory

Device

Gules, a Ukrainian trident Or and in chief a crescent pendant argent. - appears clear

  • Amlethsmor, Shire of - Gules, a spearhead Or.
    • DC for spearhead vs trident, DC for adding crescent
  • Solen Trianezov - Gules, a trident head between three escallops within an orle of chain Or.
    • DC for crescent vs escallops, DC for adding orle
  • Arion the Wanderer - Gules, a trident head within an orle Or.
    • DC for adding crescent (secondary charge), DC for removing orle (peripheral charge)?, DC for changing tincture of crescent vs orle

Gules/Sable, a Ukrainian trident Or.

Badge

Per pale Or and gules, a bear rampant sable maintaining a sword bendwise argent.

  • Bernhard Brakelman - Per pale Or and gules, a bear rampant sable between three lozenges counterchanged.
    • DC for changing # in secondary charge group, DC for changing tincture of secondary charge group (confirmed that maintained/sustained charges are considered secondary charge group unless large enough to be co-primary)

Per pale Or and gules, a bear rampant/sejant sable maintaining a scimitar bendwise sinister proper (gold handle, silver blade) overhead.

  • Clear of above.


Individually Attested Pattern

  • Documentation for any design that violates the rules

Insta-Boing Checklist

  • Registered name - yes
  • Rule of Tincture - working on it
  • Complexity 8 or less - 6
  • Slot-machine - no
  • Sword-and-dagger - no
  • Offensive/Presumptuous - no
  • Unity of Posture/Orientation/Arrangement - okay
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