Kota Saran: Difference between revisions

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* Patronymic Phrases:  In Middle Mongol sources, people are occasionally described as their father's sons or daughters, using the word kö'ün for son and öki or ökin for daughter. Descriptions of this sort weren't used as consistently as true surnames, but are useful for SCA purposes.
* Patronymic Phrases:  In Middle Mongol sources, people are occasionally described as their father's sons or daughters, using the word kö'ün for son and öki or ökin for daughter. Descriptions of this sort weren't used as consistently as true surnames, but are useful for SCA purposes.
** Construction - Father's name + genitive suffix + kö'ün (son)/ öki(n) (daughter) + given name
** Construction - Father's name + genitive suffix + kö'ün (son)/ öki(n) (daughter) + given name
http://yarntheory.net/ursulageorges/names/mongolgrammar.html
**Genitive - Middle Mongol is a case-based language: the function of a noun in a sentence is indicated by a suffix. The most important case for our purposes is the genitive, which equates to English "of _____". The genitive endings in Middle Mongol follow the rules of vowel harmony.
**Genitive
Middle Mongol is a case-based language: the function of a noun in a sentence is indicated by a suffix. The most important case for our purposes is the genitive, which equates to English "of _____". The genitive endings in Middle Mongol follow the rules of vowel harmony.


Common Middle Mongolian Genitive Suffixes
Common Middle Mongolian Genitive Suffixes
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| -yin
| -yin
|}
|}
http://yarntheory.net/ursulageorges/names/mongolgrammar.html


=Blazon Information=
=Blazon Information=

Revision as of 12:35, 4 February 2021

Bureaucratic details

  • Name: Primary, Alternate, Household or Other?
  • Action: New, Resub (kingdom), Resub (laurel), Name Change (retain old as alt), Name Change (release old name), Name Change from Holding Name, Appeal, Other
  • Already Registered Name?
  • Authenticity desired?
  • Allowed Changes: All, Intermediate and Minor, Minor only, No changes
  • If changes needed: Language/Culture, Meaning, Sound, Spelling (details)
  • Allow Holding Name?
  • Gender of Name
  • Previous submission history, if any
  • Kingdom?

Name Inspiration

  • Mongolian -
  • "I wanted a name that would be sort of easy to pronounce. And I've browsed the names resources online. I've dabble with different culture names but I'm really i to archery and the garb of Mongolian/Kievan Rus/Byzantine. "


Given Name

  • Documentation for name

Kota (Cota)

"from William of Rubruck's Journals. I read somewhere that because certain languages were not originally written in English that we could switch some letters. Not sure if I was reading that correctly. I would ideally like to have the name Kota with a K. For asthetics. But as long as name still sounds the same whether Kota or Cota that would be great. "

Dawson, Christopher, editor. The Mongol Mission: Narrative and Letters of the Franciscan Missionaries in the 13th and 14th Centuries.

Notes on transliteration/spelling:

From "Mongolian Naming Practices" - https://heraldry.sca.org/names/mongolian_names_marta.html 

"There is no standard method for transliterating Mongolian into English; according to Gronbech and Krueger, even in Mongolian literature, the substitution of one vowel for another or one consonant for another is common, similar to the non-standardized spelling in early modern English. Of four translations reviewed (three being various versions of The Secret History of the Mongols), translated by four English-speaking authors, significant differences in the use of diacritical marks and consonant combinations are seen. The first names listed are based primarily on the translation style used by Paul Kahn in his adaptation of The Secret History. Although Kahn avoids the use of diacritics by substituting less exact but roughly equivalent English consonants combinations (-ch- for -c-, -kh- for -q-, -sh- for -s-, and -g- for a glottal stop), his transliteration of names is straightforward and should result in fairly accurate and consistent pronunciation by most English speakers. (Khachigun is less likely to be mispronounced than Qaci'un.) I believe that substituting -kh- for -q- is taking this pronunciation solution to extremes, since the initial sound found in quilt only occurs with a -qu- combination. Because of this, a few Kh- initial names are listed with a Q- initial spelling to demonstrate the variation in spelling that can be applied to similar names. Both single and double element names are listed, since both types are found in manuscripts and may help to show how "complete" Mongolian names are formed.  ...how many ways can you spell Ogodei? Quite a few, and some Mongolian persona's version could be as reasonable as those that appear in published works.) Whenever possible, I have included a translation of the name, taken from these manuscripts. Those with a question mark come from my uncertain attempts to find translations in a Mongolian-English dictionary."
Transliteration IPA Description Pronunciation
q/x/kh q Postvelar/uvular stop Like K, but tongue touches further back in the mouth

http://silverhorde.viahistoria.com/main.html?research/ResearchingMongolNames.html

  • "A common thread though this section is the inconsistency of transliteration methods. Unfortunately, there are several transliteration methods, and some more ambiguous than others. For example, the letters ‘K’, ‘Kh’, ‘H’, ‘Q’ or ‘X’ can all be used to represent the same letter in Mongol, which is the initial consonant in “Khan”, or a related but distinct letter as well. "

Russian options from Wickenden

Kot (m) -- "cat."

  • Kot Davydov syn Dar'evskogo, landowner. 1516. [Tup 203]
  • Dims: Kotek (Luchka Kotek, peasant). 1631. [Tup 203]

Kotia (Kotia Pavlovich, craftsman). 1552. [Tup 203] Kotko (Fedor Mikulich Kotko, courtier). 1541. [Tup 203] Kotok (Kulik Kotok, peasant). 1495. [Tup 216]

  • Pats: Kotov (Rodivon Kotov, guest). 1611-2. [RIB II 241]
  • Pat Vars: Kotovskii (lord). 1611-2. [RIB II 251]

Kotan (m) -- var of Katan. Kotanitsa (m) -- Kotanitsa. 1303. [Mor 103] Vars: Cotanitza. 1255. [Mor 103] Kotash (m) -- Kotash Belikovich, landowner. c1400. [Tup 202]

  • Pats: Kotashevich (Goriain Kotashevich, boiar). 1571. [Tup 117]

Kotcha (m) --

  • Vars: Cotza. 1205. [Mor 103]

Kote (m) -- Kote. 1585. [Mor 103]

Mrakota (m) -- "dark." Mrakota. 1195. [Mor 130] Vars: Mrachot. 1210. [Mor 130] Mrachota. 1228. [Mor 130] Mracota. 1269. [Mor 130]

Mr'kota (m) -- Pat Vars: Mr'kotik (Voislav Mr'kotik). 1254. [Mor 130]

Vl'kota (m) -- Vl'kota. 1367. [Mor 44]

Vukota (m) -- Vukota. 1420. [Mor 52]

Byname/Surname

Sanders, Alan J.K. Historical Dictionary of Mongolia. Asian Historical Dictionaries, No. 19. The Scarecrow Press, Inc., London, 1996

Taysh

Now this one I thought would be okay but I've recently come to find out Esen Taysh (Taishi) was quite the leader and not sure if I would be able to use it at all. Also Taysh/Taishi might be used as a title to lord/lady? Think i read that in a facebook post but can't find it. Originally I thought it was another form of tysh (Arabic) for reckless. But googling as told me that nope Taysh(Taishi) is from chinese.

  • I find no documentation that it is a title protected by the SCA, but that doesn't mean it's not a title
  • As long as we use a different first name, there's no presumption with Esen Taysh
  • However, the wikipedia article about Esen Taysh is clear that Taysh is a Chinese title of authority that Esen inherited from his father, etc.
  • Also "With regard to the administration of the Mongol Empire, David Morgan, in his book The Peoples of Europe: The Mongols, discusses the presence and influence of Uighur and Khitan administrators in the Mongol court... Also discussed is the complicated political relationship between the Mongol Empire and Tibet... The height of such interaction in the Chinggisid period includes the Tibetan Phags-pa, who held “the prestigious Chinese title of ti-shih (imperial preceptor)” (Morgan) ..." - http://silverhorde.viahistoria.com/main.html?research/ResearchingMongolNames.html


Russian options from Wickenden:

Taicha (m) -- Taicha. 1623-8. [RIB II 473]

  • Pats: Taichin. 1623-8. [RIB II 476]

Taisha (m) -- "secret."

  • Pat Vars: Taishen (S't'pan Taishen). Second Half of 14th Century. [Art VI 63; #366]

Saran

Would Saran for a byname work? Sar-moon. I followed a facebook post that said it would be registrable because it follows a pattern of names based on heavenly bodies for the March 2013 precedent.

  • From the LoI of Kharakhan Saran "Saran - from An Introduction to Classical (Literary) Mongolian, 2nd Edition, by Kaare Grenbech and John R. Krueger, p.15, 72, 74" The name formation comes from On the Documentation and Construction of Period Mongolian Names by Baras-aghur Naran [1]
  • From the LoI of Saikhan Saran "Saran meaning 'moon, month' is found in An Introduction to Classical (Literary) Mongolian by Kaare Grønbech and John R. Krueger (2nd ed., Otto Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden; 1955, 1976; ISBN 3 447 01661 2), p. 74. It is also found on a website of Mongolian etymologies (http://starling.rinet.ru/) under the protoform *sara (meaning 'moon'), as one of the Middle Mongolian forms of this word. (The database seems to have moved, slightly, due to the death of the compiler. See http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?basename=dataaltmonget for the actual Mongolian parts: do a new query, under 'middle mongolian' type 'sara' and hit return.) One of the help pages says: "The databases presented here had been developed for several years by the Department of Comparative Linguistics and Ancient Languages of the Russian State University of the Humanities."

Russian (per Wickenden)

  • Saran (m) -- Pats: Saranovik (Nalk Saranovik). 1451. [Mor 134]

Alternates

Arik (this is a first name, can be used as a last name too?)

  • Aruk (m) -- Aruk, Kievian. 1168. [Mor 4]
  • Eryi (m) -- Eryi Chechel' Novoseletskii. Recorded in 1647. [Tup 429]

Kiratai.

Noyakin.

Volkova (Volchkova). Per on-line Wickenden.

  • Volk (m) -- "wolf."

Volk. 1448-68. [RIB II 25] Vars: Vilec. 1222. [Mor 47] Vlico. 14th Century. [Mor 43] Volchko (Lord Volchko Khod'kov synovets, landowner in Rus'). 1393. [Tup 91] Wlikon. 1052. [Mor 47] Wlikona. 1052. [Mor 43] Ylico. 14th Century. [Mor 43] Pats: Volkov (Istoma Ivanov syn Volkov). 1583-7. [RIB XIV 122] Volkovich (Vasilii Volkovich). 1169. [Tup 22] Pat Vars: Volchkovich [from Volchko] (Liakh Volchkovich, peasant). 1565. [Tup 238] Volkav [sic] (Putila Volkav). 1624. [RIB II 983]

Combination

  • As mentioned before, the Mongols did not use surnames. Therefore for purposes of submission, refer to the Compleat Anachronist #54, wherein is stated that the second element of most Mongol names is an epitet relating to the first name or personal characteristics, or clan identification. - Naran article - https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html
  • Patronymic Phrases: In Middle Mongol sources, people are occasionally described as their father's sons or daughters, using the word kö'ün for son and öki or ökin for daughter. Descriptions of this sort weren't used as consistently as true surnames, but are useful for SCA purposes.
    • Construction - Father's name + genitive suffix + kö'ün (son)/ öki(n) (daughter) + given name
    • Genitive - Middle Mongol is a case-based language: the function of a noun in a sentence is indicated by a suffix. The most important case for our purposes is the genitive, which equates to English "of _____". The genitive endings in Middle Mongol follow the rules of vowel harmony.

Common Middle Mongolian Genitive Suffixes

Modifying name ends in Modifying name contains Possessive Suffix
n Back vowels a, o, u; or only vowel is i -u, -nu
n Front vowels e, ö, ü -ü, -nü
A different consonant Back vowels a, o, u; or only vowel is i -un
A different consonant Front vowels e, ö, ü -ün
A vowel -yin

http://yarntheory.net/ursulageorges/names/mongolgrammar.html

Blazon Information

KotaTayshSaran.png

Basic info about the armory:

  • Mongolian-ish, purple, eclipse

Blazon Desired:

  • Per bend potenty purpure and pean (sable marked Or), in sinister chief a sun Or eclipsed sable.


Insta-Boing Checklist

  • Registered name - working on it
  • Rule of Tincture
    • Low contrast field division with complex line of division, but no charges overlapping the line so hopefully okay. (multiple precedents rejecting device that violate this)
  • Complexity 8 or less - yes
  • Slot-machine - no
  • Sword-and-dagger - no
  • Offensive/Presumptuous - no
  • Unity of Posture/Orientation/Arrangement - na

Conflict Checking

  • name Kota Taysh looks clear
  • Francisca Sastre de Arellano - The following device associated with this name was registered in April of 2012 (via Ansteorra): Quarterly sable and gules, in canton a sun Or eclipsed sable.
    • DC for field, DC for position of sun on field.

Kourost Bernard of the East Woods - The following device associated with this name was registered in December of 2000 (via the West): Sable, a sun Or eclipsed sable.

    • DC for field, DC for position of sun (unless considered "forced")

Individually Attested Pattern

  • Documentation for any design that violates the rules
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